Gil Scott Heron 

Rene: Welcome to Earshifter. He's Sean Capstick. 

Sean: And he's Rene Rouleau. And Rene, why are we here? 

Rene: You know why we're here, Sean. We're here 'cause we like each other a lot, but also we love music maybe even more perhaps, and this podcast is all about exploring music. So we do a band per episode, and either you love that band or you're discovering a new band, and either one works for us.

Sean: And I want to share a band who I hadn't thought about for a little while, and then it's the 15th year of his death. There's a movement to renew some of his songs, and I'm really happy to share my recollections about Gil Scott-Heron. But the way I want to start this [00:01:00] episode, which is a little different, is let's hear an excerpt out of his last album.

And I think this is basically the way he wants to be remembered. 

Rene: Oh, very cool. All right. What's the song called? Uh, 

Sean: it's I'm New Here from the last album that he released just before his death. 

Rene: Okay, excellent. Let's hear it.

clip: I did not become someone different that I did not want to be But I'm new here. Will you show me around?

Met a hapa wrong gone

You always can

Sean: Okay, so that's from his final [00:02:00] album of new music I'm New Here, released in 2010. And that's the... I, I don't know if it's the opening cut, but I think that really kinda summarizes that he wants to be remembered for exactly what he is, and he's not apologizing for his life, and he is not feeling sorry for himself.

And after a big hiatus, he's been sporadic in releasing records, but, you know, after a big almost 16-year gap between the previous record, he released an amazing record. And then that's I think that's a great way to sum it up. But let's talk about the man a little bit. He was born in Chicago in 1949.

His mother, Bobbie Scott, was a librarian. And his father, Gil Heron, was a Jamaican-born professional soccer player known as the Black Arrow, and he was one of the first Black soccer players or football players to play for Celtic FC. Now, their relationship didn't work out, and when he was young, he was raised by his grandmother in [00:03:00] Jackson, Tennessee.

And on I'm New Here and throughout his records, he speaks about his grandmother a lot. He refers to her in song and poems a lot. And then he moved to New York City, the Bronx, as a teenager after she died, and he was recognized for his literary skills. He on scholarship attended a prestigious New York school.

He attended university, but he never completed his undergrad, but he did get a Master of Arts from John Hopkins in creative writing, and he taught creative writing at a DC university. In addition to his musical career, he wrote at least two novels lots of collections of poetry, and a posthumous memoir about his life that is on my list of things to read now.

But where I found him is is his musical career. So he emerged in the early '70s as a poet and musician who intertwined spoken word, jazz, soul, blues into a political [00:04:00] style that was very much similar in the vein of the Last Poets, if you're familiar with them. That was another foundational group in their spoken word performance.

And his first recording was Small Talk at 125th and Lenox, which is streets in New York City. And it was a rhythm-driven critique of racism and media, and it's a pretty good album. I think it's stayed very relevant to this day. So let's hear the song from that called "Whitey on the Moon." All right, let's hear it.

clip: We have a poem here. It's called "Whitey on the Moon."

And, uh, it was inspired by some whities on the moon. So I wanna give credit where credit is due. All right. That's it[00:05:00] 

A rat done bit my sister Nell with Whitey on the moon. Her face and arms began to swell and Whitey's on the moon. I can't pay no doctor bills, but Whitey's on the moon. 10 years from now, I'll be paying still while Whitey's on the moon. You know, the man just upped my rent last night, 'cause Whitey's on the moon.

No hot water, no toilets, no lights, but Whitey's on the moon. I wonder why he's upping me, 'cause Whitey's on the moon? Well, I was already giving him 50 a week, and now Whitey's on the moon. Taxes taking my whole damn check. The junkies make me a nervous wreck. The price of food is going up, and as if all that crap wasn't enough, a rat done bit my sister Nell with Whitey on the moon 

Rene: All right.

So I like that song a lot. I have to say this, that, Sean, this, this artist it does not surprise [00:06:00] me why you love this artist so much, 'cause he really is truly a poet and says poignant things. And in this case, the whole contrast of back then, the, you know, spending billions going to the moon, in contrast to, the situation in America, not dissimilar to now except for the moon part maybe, but even that is happening again.

Well, they're, they're going back to the moon, right? Yes. I 

Sean: mean, you know, like, they're returning to the moon and going to Mars. You know, like, it's- 

Rene: Crazy ... 

Sean: the themes are a little bit timeless, yes. 

Rene: Yeah, and that's part of the reason I really liked it, too, was because I'm, like, listening to these songs going, "Wait a minute.

When was this done? Holy." 

Sean: 1970. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: Yeah. And this was, again, Nixon, and we'll, he, he's very politically charged. You know, like, things were not going well, in terms of the civil rights movement at the time, right? And he was reacting to that, and, uh, in a very lyrical way. 

Rene: Yeah. And w- getting ahead of ourselves a little bit, but the one thing [00:07:00] I'll say is listening to this, and, and thanks for this, 'cause I d- I actually didn't know who he was is it actually kind of reassured me weirdly, because we're in such a crazy, let's face it, come on America.

Hey, America down there, from Canada up here, you're not doing so well right now. Uh, and it does kind of seem scary, but when I listen to this and I realize, hey, America's been through bad stuff before. Maybe they'll get through this one, too. 

Sean: Well, I hope so. Yeah, me too. Okay, so let's keep that positivity.

Rene: Yeah, let's keep it. 

Sean: And, 'cause I think that, again, was one of the things that Gil Scott-Heron had. He was pointing out injustice, but did it in a positive, uplifting way. His songs grooved, right? So he moved one of his early colleagues and, and, you know, creative forces, Brian Jackson, they moved from this spoken word, just, um, you know, simple drums into a you know, a jazz combo.

And they moved through the '70s, where he released a great [00:08:00] series of albums. It's funny, they're not, they're, the Arista records are not on my streaming services. So there's a few songs that You know, I remember so well that, you know, we don't have stre- access to it on the streaming services, but, you know, these albums, "Pieces of a Man," "Winter in America," "First Minutes of a New Day," you know, symbolizing hope "Bridges," "Secrets," you know, they blended this jazz, soul, and funk with this political commentary, and "Home Is Where the Hatred Is," uh, you can get, but, you know, I couldn't find "The Bottle" or "Angel Dust" that I remember so well.

The "Peace Be With You, Brother" from "Winter in America," you know, all those songs really, I remember well listening to them back in the day on those records. So you mentioned it. Where are these protest songs? You know, where, where, uh, you know, I listen now, and maybe we are not listening in the right area, but I do feel that it was easy to hear these protest songs on terrestrial [00:09:00] radio and I don't think it's there anymore, or at least I'm not hearing it as much anymore.

The, the music that I hear is m- you know, is the uplifting, but not the social commentary part. 

Rene: Couple things on that. One, sorry, when you say terrestrial radio, what does that mean exactly? 

Sean: Terrestrial radio means the radio you get in your car, but not on SiriusXM. Okay. Got you. Like, uh, over the airwaves.

Right. The traditional radio. 

Rene: So was he being played? Do we know, was he being played on traditional radio or college radio? 

Sean: I first heard him on the Spirit of Radio, CFNY- Okay ... in, you know, when I was in high school. Okay. And, um, we'll get to it in a sec, or we can just, we can hear that mus- the, right now.

I remember, it was Reagan era, early 1980s, and he released a song called B Movie, and, you know, CFNY played it a lot. It directly attacked Reagan's presidency media manipulation, Cold [00:10:00] War social costs, policy, you know, about America being a consumer and it used to be a producer, and when you're a consumer, when the producer calls, it, it talks about, the lines, if I can remember them correctly "The Arabs were in the Third World. They put a payment on the Second World, and they're coming for the First World with oil." You know, that- Yeah ... just, you know, the, he was running through the- Not relevant today, 

Rene: though. 

Sean: You know- Not at all ... again, these are kinda timeless.

Yeah. So let's... And this is, and this is again, the, the, let's hear the beginning of B, B Movie, because this was, when I heard it, you know, as a teenager I was like, "Wow, this is amazing political commentary." All right, let's hear it. 

clip: Well, the first thing I wanna say is, mandate my ass. Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but [00:11:00] 26% of the registered voters form a mandate or a landslide.

21% voted for Skippy, and 3, 4% voted for somebody else who might've been running. But oh yeah, I remember, in this year that we have now declared the year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan. Meant it. Acted like an actor. Hollywood. Acted like a liberal. Acted like General Franco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted like a Republican.

Then he acted like somebody was gonna vote for him for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate. We're all actors in this, I suppose. What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from a producer to a consumer, and all consumers know that when the producer names the tune, the consumer has got to dance.

That's the way it is. [00:12:00] We used to be a producer, very inflexible at that, and now we are consumers and finding it difficult to understand Natural resources and minerals will change your world 

Rene: All right, so I really like this song as well. I like the music underneath it. But of course, he's doing that, talking, not really singing, but being kinda poetic about everything and, and using cadence to his advantage.

Sean: And this the title, Bee Movie, in parentheses, intro poem song, right? So we just heard the intro. This song goes through very rhythmic, and again, themes that are still, you know, like he acted like an actor. The Americans have an actor in nostalgia, and, uh, the thesis is, Ronald Reagan was elected because John Wayne wasn't available-

and people were looking for a hero to ride on or, or into the sunset [00:13:00] with. And it's just a, again, that, that poem that he speak-sings to, and then it's a, you know, it's a 6, 12-minute song, right? Yeah. And the last couple minutes is just a groove on where he goes, "It ain't really a life. It ain't really a life.

It ain't really your life. It's nothing but a movie." Hmm. And it's just a trance that goes on for the last little bit that is so, you know, again, still sounds fresh some 30 years later. 

Rene: Yeah and probably hypnotic and, and- Yeah ... in, in and of itself making a point that we c- just kinda drone along and, and we're just going with it- 

Sean: Yeah

Rene: in a passive sense when we should not be. 

Sean: Yeah. 

Rene: Oh, by the way, did we mention up front that this episode might be a little bit political? 

Sean: A little bit, because the sequel to this is in 1984, where it's a little bit more electronic, and I can't find this on the streaming service, is "Re-Run," and it's, "We don't need no [00:14:00] re-run.

We don't need no re-run," about his second term. 

Rene: Oh, gotcha. 

Sean: So it's, uh, yeah, these were politically charged. And, uh, uh, he's, you know, he was... the groove is cool. Okay, so let's talk about two additional themes that he came back to in these, in this politically charged, as you said episode. So anti-apartheid and no nuclear, two themes of the '80s, right?

He was there talking about those two issues. So "Johannesburg," which I can't find on my streaming service, the original non-live version. There's plenty of live versions with a call and response there, and it's great. It... He's talking about he can't get news out of Johannesburg, and he wants to spread the word, Johannesburg, and it's a funky, catchy tune that got people talking about South Africa in the '80s, right?

You know, and just like The Specials' "Free Nelson Mandela," these were catchy tunes that [00:15:00] brought that important topic to people's consciousness. 

Rene: And let's, let's also flag there was no internet, folks, so- Yeah ... there was no literal way to get news other than the news. 

Sean: And the news is biased. It's not fake, but it does have biases within it.

You know, he was on the right side of history there with that song, and I was fortunate enough to be in South Africa. My in-laws were living there- They were there the night of the election where Nelson Mandela was elected. 

Rene: Wow. 

Sean: And- That's really cool. Yeah, it was a pretty imp- uh, you know, a, a very important moment in time.

So we were able to tour the country. It's such a beautiful country. Meet people. I'd known a lot of South Africans here in Canada, and continue to, to speak with South Africans uh, all over the world. And yeah, you know, what a great time. He was on the right side of history with that. 

Rene: Can I just say, pure coincidence, but I was in Times Square the night Obama first got elected.

Sean: Yeah. 

Rene: You remember that- That was magical. [00:16:00] Magical. Remember- It was so cool ... 

Sean: these times. Yeah. Remember these moments in times. 

Rene: Yeah. It was amazing. 

Sean: So where I disagree and even back in the day, I think I was not down with the no nuclear program. You know, I- uh, he's got a, a few songs, We Almost Lost New York, and some other songs about.

He was on a lot of those no nukes compilation albums and, you know, participated in the collective concerts. So there, you know, I think nuclear deserves, requires a very informed debate, that all positions should be represented. But, fast-forward that 30 years, now nuclear is an important part of our low-carbon future, and to be able to have the energy we need without the the greenhouse gases that go along with it, you know, it's really important.

So, you know, those discussions about safety and about not trusting the government to maintain that safety and cover up things, those are really important discussions. Uh, you 

Rene: know- Al- also, I, I mean, I don't know [00:17:00] you very well, but I think you work in the environment or for the environment or something like that?

I don't know. 

Sean: I do have more than a passing opinion on that. I have been paid by... full disclosure I have been paid by companies that are promoting nuclear power. And so yeah, if I didn't believe in it, then I wouldn't be able to do my job every day. Yeah, but again- And, you know, but my job is to make sure that they're doing it safely and following- That's right

the rules. 

Rene: Exactly. And so again, m- maybe some would argue, maybe some listeners would argue, but on the right side of the environment. 

Sean: But I think there's a, a, you know, unlike racial inequality, I think, where there is one side, with the environment, it's choices. Right. And people have to make choices, and they have to make informed choices, and we need both sides.

And I think that's where Gil Scott-Heron, listening to him now, it really is important to hear those different views and hear the different views from all sides of these debates, and that's why I think he's still vital today. 

Rene: Yeah. And then one last thing on that my [00:18:00] sister, my older sister, folks, my older sister is, like, nine years older than me, she dragged me to a No Nukes protest.

I think it went down Yonge Street, down the center of the city, and that's a strong memory for me, and it was kinda cool. 

Sean: Yeah. These are they're... It's important to have these debates. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: I saw him in concert twice. 

Rene: Whoa. Cool. 

Sean: And I think you would have liked him in concert because unlike Courtney last night, who just went- Courtney Barnett

Courtney Barnett, who we just saw and are still kinda buzzing from our- 

Rene: I love that show. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. 

Sean: She only did perfunctory interactions- Yes ... with the crowd. 

Rene: Yes. 

I think she's a little shy- Yeah ... based on our episode. 

Sean: I think maybe she's a little shy, but, you know, and it was nice and it was sincere.

It was. Her thank yous- 

Rene: Yeah ... 

Sean: you know, I say perfunctory, but, uh, you know, they seemed genuine. Yeah. Right? And she did play a song for us that she hasn't played for other cities and mentioned that. Yeah. So Gil Scott-Heron he was an ultimate performer and got engaged with the crowd. Just standing beside his upright piano.

He referred to himself [00:19:00] as a bluesologist, and every song had a little intro. Every song had a little bit of history to it. He's got a number of live albums, and I put a couple in our, our playlist that you can download and take a look at. But you would elect to be... He really introduced different things.

So the first time I saw him was Suzanne Chandler. 

Rene: Okay. 

Sean: And I think it was The Bamboo in Yorkville. 

Rene: Sorry, uh, Suzanne Chandler's a friend of ours. 

Sean: Yes, from high school. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: It was Bamboo in Yorkville before it went on Queen Street. I, I don't recall. I can't remember. Yeah. So I saw him in a, a club in Yorkville.

Oh, okay. Um, and there weren't too many people, but, you know, it was a great show. He played the Bee Movie, he talked about this, and this, this was kind of, as he's, you know, getting out of his creative period. So he had released a whole bunch of albums through the '70s, again, to, to critically acclaimed, right?

I think they were... they sold well. He was on Arista. And then- This was as he was kind of moving [00:20:00] into a less creative period. But I still, you know, I'd saw him for the first time and I thought it was, it was great. And then Gail, Neil, and I went to Buffalo one weekend. Wow. Uh, we left, I don't know if it was a Friday or a Saturday, drove down.

We went to, you know, we had drinks. We went to The Continental and then was dancing. Um, you know, there was drinking. And I don't know if it was purposeful, if we knew that Gil Scott-Heron was playing in Buffalo, or we just found out as we were saying, "What are we gonna do in Buffalo?" when we arrived.

But he was playing like a soft, like a, a cabaret theater, right? It was tables. It was we didn't have dinner, but, you know, maybe some b- people had dinner before the show. I think it was just him playing there. And it was amazing just to hear him in a very, again, an intimate environment talking about this.

And I remember he did a song called "Space Shuttle," and it was very much about the... [00:21:00] I think the space shuttle had blown up at this time, although he wasn't talking, you know, about that tragedy. But it was, again, that same first song we heard, why are people spending this much money- 

Rene: Yeah ... 

Sean: on space- Why get on the moon?

when there's all these problems- ... here at Earth? And I remember he was rhyming space shuttle something and ozone layer. And Gail turned to me and said, "Is that true? Is the space shuttle really harming the ozone layer?" You know, it wasn't the social injustice that she was concerned about. Anyway, and then we drove back that night.

I wish I had that much energy. 

Rene: Real, real quick, give us a sense of first, first show numbers. Like 100, 300, and then second show. 

Sean: So the, uh, the, I remember the hall being very big and it wasn't filled by any means. So there was, you know, probably 200 

Rene: or 300 people there. Okay. And then second show?

Sean: Second show, it was a, a dinner theater. There was probably 100 people. Wow. And we were sitting, we were sitting at, at circular tables, like at a banquet. Yeah, yeah. Like at a- Yeah ... at a wedding. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: And he was just on a, the wedding stage playing these [00:22:00] cool songs. 

Rene: Wow. 

Sean: Yeah. Very 

Rene: cool. 

Sean: I miss that innocence, right?

I miss that I miss that energy and I miss that innocence of that... And that was probably, you know, that would've been, I don't know, the early '90s. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: And, you know, that was a big... He hadn't released a lot of, um, music in that part. He came back with a album called Spirits in '94, and by this point- He was being recognized by the rap hip hop community as a real inspiration.

You know, the speak song style is was being recognized, but again, he, he referred to himself as a bluesologist, not as, you know, he was like, he's, I don't know, quoted in, in some things that he didn't wanna be responsible for all of that crap that was being produced. But this song I won't play it, but "Message to the Messengers" talks about the responsibility you have once you have a voice and how much that is a, a burden [00:23:00] So he went into a long hiatus through the '90s and was in- incarcerated.

Had a bad... And then came out of jail, went back into jail. 

Rene: What was he in jail for? 

Sean: For drug possession. 

Rene: Yeah. Okay. 

Sean: And you know, this was a, a bad time for him. But then he came back with that album that we started with, I'm New Here. So let's get to that, but let's talk about his cultural influence as well, right?

So Public Enemy clearly are influenced by Gil Scott-Heron and they're very strong on that. At the beginning of, I think, "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back," they start with a live episode I think it's from London, and yes, they were playing "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised," and then he says, "The revolution, go get a late pass."

Yes. "You're late for it." [00:24:00] Yes. That is a, uh, uh, that is a good start. But LCD Soundsystem, so- Hmm ... you know, they're a New York City band. Yeah. And they name-check him and a whole bunch of other bands in this song called "I'm Losing My Edge," and I'll, I'll play you that off the show, and listeners, I would recommend that you give this song a listen because it goes through basically a whole bunch of gear shifter artists.

He starts talking about Can, he starts talking about being watching Alan Vega and who's the, uh, other guy in Suicide? Uh, Rev, Martin, Martin Rev to you know, when they were doing their first cuts. He talks about, uh, The Sonics, he talks about The Modern Lovers and, you know, all of these cool...

You've got all the good songs from these bands and... But it's also talking about how he's becoming less relevant as he gets a little bit older, so it's quite a- Hmm ... a, a nice song. So Gil Scott-Heron is, [00:25:00] is featured prominently in that song. Hmm. And then, uh, you know, this, this last album, the, the I'm New Here, it- Was a turn, return to force.

And I think he was paid back a little bit in terms of all of these people that he's influenced. Damon Albarn- blur ... from Blur. 

Rene: And also Gorillaz. 

Sean: And the Gorillaz, yeah. He plays keyboards on, and overdubs on this album. 

Rene: Oh, very cool. 

Sean: Yeah. So it's, it's, it is pretty cool. And then Jamie xx from The xx he did a remix of the entire album and called We're New Here and gave it an electronic feel.

And then another guy who I'm not as familiar with Makaya McCraven he did another re-imagining. So Jamie xx did it in 2011. Makaya did it in 2020, and he gave it a whole new jazz feel. Hmm. So going from a electronica to [00:26:00] jazz. But let's hear the original version, 'cause I think it's pretty stark.

There's another big song, and the big song off the Jamie xx version is, is New York's Killing Me. Let's hear again one of these great spoken word songs called Running from the I'm New Here. All right, let's hear it. 

clip: Because running makes me look like everyone else, though I hope there will never be cause for that.

Because I would be running in the other direction, not running for cover. Because if I knew where cover was, I would stay there and never have to run for it. Not running for my life, because I have to be running for something of more value to be running and not in fear. Because the thing I fear cannot be escaped, eluded, avoided, hidden from, protected from, gotten away from.

Not without showing the fear as I see it now. Because closer, [00:27:00] clearer, noser, nearer. Because of you, and because of that nice that you quietly, quickly be causing. And because you're going to see me run soon. And because you're going to know why I'm running then. You'll know then, because I'm not going to tell you now

Rene: All right. I love this one. I love that line where he says, "If I knew where a cover was, I would stop running," basically is what he says, and it's like- And 

Sean: stay there. 

Rene: And stay there, yeah. And it's that's so real, and it just, so poi- I just thought was really poignant and true. 

Sean: Mm-hmm. And he's running in the other direction- 

Rene: Yeah

Sean: which is, uh, a good way to run- Yeah. 

Rene: Yeah ... 

Sean: as opposed to where everybody else is. But I think that's his, you know, his biggest cultural influence and lasting memory. So, the Paul Thomas Anderson movie, the One Battle After Another, where Leonardo DiCaprio plays Bob, a [00:28:00] washed-up former revolutionary whose daughter, Willa, goes missing, forcing him back to conflict with an old nemesis, Sean Penn.

Like, it's a pretty good movie. 

Rene: Yeah. For sure. 

Sean: And, uh, it's also a bit of a comedy because he can't remember the code words to get help from the French 75, the revolutionary group. But his daughter, Willa who's played by Chase Infinity, she's being saved by somebody in the French 75, and the code words are so the person saving her says, "Green Acres, Beverly Hillbillies, Hooterville Junction."

And Willa says, "We'll no longer be so goddamn relevant." And then Deandra, this person saving says, "And women will not care if Dick finally got down with Jane on Search for Tomorrow" and Willa, "Because Black people will be in the street looking for a brighter day." And then they both say together, "The revolution will not be [00:29:00] televised."

Hmm. Right. And that's pretty funny, 'cause those are the exact lines from, uh, Gil Scott-Heron's poem and song. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: So let's hear that one. 

Rene: All right, let's hear it. And the title of that song is? "

Sean: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised". Awesome. Let's hear it. 

clip: Green Acres, Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville Junction will no longer be so damn relevant.

And women will not care if Dick finally got down with Jane on Search for Tomorrow, because Black people will be in the street looking for a brighter day. The revolution will not be televised. There will be no highlights on the 11 o'clock news and no pictures of Harry or a woman liberationist and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose

The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb or Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom Jones, Johnny Cash, Engelbert Humperdinck, or the Rare Earth. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be right back after a message about a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.

You will not have to worry about a dove in your [00:30:00] bedroom, the tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl. The revolution will not go better with Coke. The revolution will not fight germs that may cause bad breath. The revolution will put you in the driver's seat. The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised.

The revolution will be no rerun, brothers. The revolution will be live 

Rene: Okay, I think it's fair to say just based on what we've talked about, that probably is his most famous song. Yeah. And, uh, wow, that really was a direct quote in that movie from the song itself. And then the other thing I 

Sean: wa- That's the code you have to get saved by the French 75 connection.

That's right. Yes. I think I would remember that. 

Rene: I think you would too- Yeah ... lyric boy. And then the other thing I wanna say is I love the end of this song where he, I believe he just says, "The revolution will be live." 

Sean: Yep. 

Rene: That is so cool. I just l- 'Cause, ah, I j- I love this song. 

Sean: Yeah. Yeah. And so astute listeners will remember [00:31:00] in our third episode, Leonardo DiCaprio is also mentioned playing a literary poet figure from New York City in The Basketball Diaries.

Jim Carroll, our the subject of our third episode, who, you know, the parallels are somewhat similar, although he had his drug problems early in his career and then got clean. The, you know, they were both poets, wrote books. That's true. And yeah, and I think, were really lasting seminal influences- Seminal, for sure

on culture. 

Rene: And also funny, 'cause I believe that was close to one of DiCaprio's first movies. Yeah. If not the first movie. 

Sean: When he was young. Yeah. That we 

Rene: know of anyway. 

Sean: Yeah. And- Unlike where he plays Bob, where he's older, which he does a great job. So going back to The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, it's in the National Recording Registry, right?

He's... It's been, you know, recognized as a important song in the American [00:32:00] canon. And this, uh, this guy Paul Thompson Anderson, PTA, he's collaborated with other musicians who explicitly cite, uh, Gil Scott-Heron as a influence. So do you know who he's directed multiple videos for? 

Rene: No, I don't, but I'm s- Who?

Sean: Some gu- some band called Radiohead. 

Rene: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your favorite band. 

Sean: And, uh, Thom Yorke cites Gil Scott-Heron as a significant influence in his, uh, music. 

Rene: Ah, very cool. 

Sean: Yeah. Now it's too bad that, uh, Gil Scott-Heron couldn't have given Thom Yorke some vocal coaching. Maybe coached him a little bit on a baritone- I-

'cause he could have just, if he just drops an octave or something- I 

Rene: know, Sean ... it'd be so much better ... honestly. I mean, he, Radiohead keeps coming up in these episodes, and you still staunchly will not bow down to the greatness of Radiohead. 

Sean: Maybe you've gotta do an episode but only play the good songs from them.

Rene: Well, we can't do Radiohead. They're not a, they're not an earshifter band. 

Sean: They're not an earshifter band. No. [00:33:00] So why do we talk about them so much, Rene? 

Rene: Mm, because they're just already too good. 

Sean: Mm, 

Rene: okay. And too famous. They're already too famous. 

Sean: So do we agree that Gil Scott-Heron should be more popular?

What are his streaming statistics? 

Rene: Yeah, yeah. So he has about 500,000 monthly listeners, which is not terrible. But I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't know who he was. Uh, you know, so that says something right there. And absolutely, the guy was hugely influential. And just as a side note, a little sad that, like, when you went to see him, although lucky for you, it was only, like, 100 people there and stuff.

Yeah. And that kind of, like, makes me a little sad, you know? 

Sean: Yeah. Although at, at the time I thought it was the... I didn't feel sad for him. I was just excited. Maybe I should've asked you in high school, but we were just trading records then. We weren't, uh- We weren't actually friends

going on dates yet. We weren't actually going on dates at that point. 

Rene: So funny. Yeah, just to recap how we became friends, guys, is we traded albums 'cause there was no internet. We traded albums once a [00:34:00] month, and we did that for a year and didn't invite each other into our houses. Literally stood at the door going, "Okay, try this."

And we did- And we lived 

Sean: in the same cul-de-sac in the same townhouse complex ... 

Rene: yeah, in the same townhouse complex. Never went out, never hung out, never invited each other into each other's houses 

Sean: until- I'm glad you invited me over that- ... that first time. Yeah. Broke the ice, Rene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. And now, and look at that, and we knew that it would be a direct line to podcast fame.

Rene: Yeah. Yeah. Fame indeed. 

Sean: Yes. Okay, so- Let's wrap it up. Why is he an earshifter band? I think his poems and songs foreshadowed that whole hip hop narrative and rhythmic sensibilities. 

Rene: I don't think there can be an argument there at all. 

Sean: Yeah, that half-sung, half-spoken, you know, like that's what the best parts of rap to me.

Rene: Yeah. D- just sorry, I, I meant to ask this. Did Grandmaster Flash ever reference Gil Scott-Heron or no, no connection there? 

Sean: I'm sure. I don't know of any. I didn't do any, uh, research on that, but I'm sure that they were. I mean, they would be around at the [00:35:00] same time. '

Rene: Cause I always thought that they were the godfathers of rap, like, or referred to such as.

Sean: Well, I think they created that rap sound. They would've been heavily influenced by that music, right? I would think so. And that, that was about the same time. You know, B Movie and Grandmaster Flash was The Message came- Yeah ... you know, I, we, w- I was listening to that in high school. It was great. Such 

Rene: a great song.

My God, such a great song. 

Sean: Yeah. 

Rene: And holds up. 

Sean: Yes. So he's been posthumously received a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award. Nice. And he's in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame as an early influence. 

Rene: Amazing. 

Sean: Yeah. So- So it's great. So he's getting recognition. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: Uh, you know, and but more important, I think that, you know, he proved music could be politically confrontational, emotional, adventurous all at the same time, right?

Rene: Yeah, um, I mean, there are artists out there that are doing something similar or have done something similar, like Rage Against the Machine- Mm-hmm ... was certainly very political. So there are bands out there, but I just feel like, you know, Rage Against the Machine, when, when [00:36:00] was that, Sean? Like 2000s?

Uh, 

Sean: I think it would've been late '90s, but yeah- Yeah ... the 2000s, the aughts. Yeah, so I 

Rene: just- Yeah ... feel like there's not a... Folks, if you know of artists that are actually being politically, like sticking their neck out besides like a Bruce Springsteen, who, is awesome in his own right, but if you know up-and-coming artists who are actually being political, tell us.

Share, share with us 'cause we wanna learn and actually maybe- But- ... they'll become an earshifter band. Who knows? Yeah. 

Sean: Kendrick Lamar,

Rene: yeah, for sure. 

Sean: Yep. So- 

Rene: But I mean... Yes, yeah, yeah, for sure. 

Sean: You know, and I think that's what I hope is, you know, he was one of the first artists to show me that socially conscious, literate music and super catchy beats can go together, and yeah, I hope there are more artists that you're calling for.

Let's feature them. 

Rene: Yeah. Let's feature them. 

Sean: Okay. So who are we gonna hear next time, Rene? 

Rene: Next time we're gonna kinda do a little throwback to, um, some artists that we've covered. Uh, Waxahatchee comes to mind. Uh, Waxahatchee and this guy are [00:37:00] connected in many, many ways. Connected. 

Sean: Okay. 

Rene: Uh, so that's what we're gonna hear next.

Sean: And if you've seen Instagram, he did something to her 

Rene: Okay. I think- I think 

Sean: they did it together. But yes, they are, they are definitely connected. I wish them very well. I 

Rene: don't know if we should phrase it that way, John. It feels a little weird, but I kinda like it at the same time. Hopefully they have a sense of humor.

Sean: Okay. Well, until next time. Until next time. 

Rene: We hope you enjoyed this episode of EarShifter. Tune in next time, where we'll cover another band that deserves more. You can find EarShifter on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Friend us or listen to our playlists on Spotify, and visit earshifter.com for more information.

A special thanks go to our logo designer, Stuart Thursby, and our intro/outro music by Joe Novak. You can find him as byebyebadman, one word, on SoundCloud. And a big shout-out to Joe for being our awesome sound engineer/editor. Until next [00:38:00] time.