Rene: Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to Earshifter. He's Sean Capstick. 

Sean: And he's Rene Rouleau. And Rene, tell us, why are we here? 

Rene: Sean, we do this because basically we wanna introduce people to bands that we feel were kinda overlooked, maybe underplayed. And then on the other side of that, if you're a fan of said band, then guess what?

You're gonna learn a whole bunch of stuff. 

Sean: Yeah. I think this band was not overlooked back in the day. They were pretty influential and pretty popular but I like them a lot, Rene. 

Rene: Yeah, and says you, because again, you have cool friends. I have-- I love my friends. They are cool too. But I guarantee you that not one of them would know who Dinosaur Jr.

is, or Dinosaur, for that matter. 

Sean: Well, that's too bad. So maybe get your friends to listen and I'll tell them all about how great Dinosaur Jr. was and is- Yeah ... to this day. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: Okay, so before, Dinosaur Jr., they're a heavy influential band through the '80s and the '90s. They're still around today.

I'll talk about when I saw them just recently. But Rene, when we lived together, I was peak Dinosaur Jr. This was, like, kinda the end of records. I- we had a record player. We had a CD player. I was listening to Dinosaur Jr. a lot, right? What do you remember about why I like them so much? 

Rene: Wow. I-- Okay, so first of all, I, I seem to be blanking out.

I don't remember that. I do remember you 100% introducing me to Dinosaur Jr. And I do like, uh, Dinosaur Jr., like quite a few of the songs. I don't remember that peak Dinosaur Jr. feeling that you had, but I did wanna ask you, what makes you like Dinosaur Jr.? Is it the lyrics? Is it- No. No, it's not. 

Sean: No?

Interesting. I mean, the lyrics are, are good, but they're not-- It's not poetry that they're s- they're singing about. I mean, they're-- The lyrics fit into the music, and the music and the lyrics go together. It's more how the loudness of the band and the lyrics fit together. So it's more of a feeling that I get from Dinosaur Jr.

that made me like them so 

Rene: much. Oh, interesting. And but also, I mean, they are kind of like classic rocky in a way, right? 

Sean: They brought the guitar solo back. 

Rene: They did single-handedly, I swear to God. And, like, one of them you shared with me the besties list, and in one of them I'm like, "Is he trolling me again?

Because, like, this is the longest guitar solo I have heard in a long time." 

Sean: It's J Mascis the singer and the guitarist of the band- Is a bit of a noodler. He-- I think there's some lists that list him as one of the best hun- top [00:03:00] hundred, top ten guitarists of all time. 

Rene: Wow! 

Sean: And yeah, you know, he, he brought the guitar back to independent music.

So let's, let's talk about that a little bit more then in terms of how they started and what they were doing. So Jay Mascis and Lou Barlow, the, and Murph, their drummer they met in the early '80s. Lou Barlow met this other guy, Scott Helland and the story goes they were at an Oi, uh, remember Oi!

punk? 

Rene: I mean, I know Oi! punk. Is, is Oi! a special meeting of Ois? 

Sean: No, no. I think an Oi! singles bin at a local record shop. And so they said they're going to form a band, and so they put a flyer out and said they were looking for musicians influenced by Anti-Pasty, another punk band, Discharge, and a drummer who wanted to play fast.

So Jay Mascis responded to the flyer. The story goes that his dad drove him to [00:04:00] Lou Barlow's house, so that's cute, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're probably too young to drive. 

Rene: Yeah, like how old, how old is he at this point? This is 

Sean: in- 

Rene: He's in high school, 

Sean: right? This is in '82, so they, you know, like you do the math.

They're contemporaries of ours, right? Okay. So they would be in high school. 

Rene: Yeah. Mid high school. 

Sean: Yeah. Yeah. And so, they formed a band, a hardcore band called Deep Wound in 1982. Lou Barlow was playing guitar, Jay Mascis was on the drums. They had a vocalist that they kicked out right away because he was too political, and that Helland guy was on bass.

They recorded a- an album. Their manager Gerard Cosloy went on to form H- Homestead Records, and the band were known for increasingly fast hardcore that bordered on noise. So we're not gonna hear any Deep Wound, but they do often play one of their Deep Wound songs in their uh- Like live?

set list today. Oh, 

Rene: that's- Yeah ... that's kinda cool. 

Sean: Yeah. So it is [00:05:00] kinda cool. Yeah. Yeah. So Deep Wound ended in '84. Mascis switched from drums to guitar, and Lou switched to the bass, and they wanted to write more melodic, slower, and heavier music. They were definitely, this is '84, so they were definitely under the influence of the Meat Puppets at this time and the Dream Syndicate that we talked about in the last episode- Yep

that were both melodic different sounding, but h- had extensive use of guitars and feedback and noise that you love. For more on the Meat Puppets, season one, episode 11. So they recruited Murph on drums, and they formed a new band called Dinosaur. 

Rene: Right. Can I just skip a beat and- Yeah

'cause I'm so curious 'cause I did see that they had to change their name due to legal reasons, but why did they just go, "Okay, we'll just add Junior at the end"? I think it's awesome, but I'm just wondering how that went down. Do we know? 

Sean: Well, because the Dinosaur [00:06:00] band the were rock dinosaurs. So this was a San Francisco-based band with Jefferson Airplane, Electric Joe & The Fish, and other '60s rockers.

Wow! So they reformed as a, a what is it? Super group. Super group. 

Rene: Yep. 

Sean: And they called themselves Dinosaur, and they sued this young Dinosaur, so why wouldn't you say- Okay ... Dinosaur Jr.? 

Rene: Okay, okay. I, I quite like that. That's kinda awesome. 

Sean: So their first album was called Dinosaur. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: It was on Homestead Records.

And I don't wanna play anything of that. It was a, an interesting album, but- Okay ...

Rene: well, I mean, not to skip a beat, but, like, I... They have 10 albums. Yeah. 10 studio albums. There's a lot to go through here. 

Sean: There's a lot to go through. So let's, let's go to their, their, they signed with SST again. Ah, yes.

The, the, the quintessential independent record label at that time that, again, we- Meat Puppets were on. Um- Do you remember 

Rene: who else? 

Sean: Sonic Youth. Okay. Um, uh, [00:07:00] I think s- yeah, Sonic Youth were on there. Sh- I don't know. Listen to- That would make sense. That would make sense 'cause- Listen to Fire Hose the Minutemen.

Rene: Right. 

Sean: The listen to the Meat Puppets episode. We go through 'em all. 

Rene: Yeah, yeah, that's right. 

Sean: And their influence and it, they started the popularization of alternative rock, right? So another Boston band, The Pixies, they popularized this loud soft that we love here at EarShifter.

They they're loud, but I think what's beautiful about Dinosaur Jr. is their harmonies, and the harmonies that aren't right over the top, but come through the noise. And as we said, they made guitar solos cool. They signed to a major record label. They changed the '90s. They had an acrimonious split.

They stopped entirely for 10 years, from '97 to 2006. And, the four major record labels that were before that, they were basically a one-person band with J dismissing Lou and Murph, and he was playing all the parts [00:08:00] on all of those records. Wow, 

Rene: okay. 

Sean: But, they're back as the original trio, and I think they're still rocking.

Rene: And I think that's great. Is Murph on drums? 

Sean: Yep, Murph's 

Rene: back 

Sean: on drums. 

Rene: Yeah. I did read some stuff about J Mascis being a bit of a control freak when it came to the drums- We'll get- ... and that set Murph off. 

Sean: We'll get into 

Rene: that. Oh, I'm sorry. 

Sean: We'll 

Rene: get 

Sean: into that. All right. All right. All right. All right. 'Cause, yeah, he was a drummer.

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: He was a control freak for sure. But let me tell you that story, and I wanna to tell you in reverse based on the three times that I've seen them live with my family. 

Rene: With your family? Amazing. 

Sean: Yeah, it is amazing. Yeah. I'm so happy to be able to do that. So in reverse, these last few episodes we've talked about the Sky Blue Sky, the Wilco Festival.

So Dinosaur Jr. played on the last night. They came out and they were elder statesmen. They were a legacy act, but they were still relevant and virile. Their first two songs were from their first and their latest album. So, you know, that's [00:09:00] pretty cool. Like, they're gonna span their career.

That's great. And before they launched into the first song Lou Barlow screamed the best parts of "Don't." So that's on their second album. We'll talk about it. Right. 

Rene: Yep. Yep. 

Sean: And it... He's screaming "Why don't you like me?" And it's, I like Lou Barlow a lot. I like his songs. So it was pretty cool to start that.

You know, there's a couple other songs that start with screaming. And they were definitely a band, right? They... I was happy for them. They made me smile. They still rock, and it was great that I could enjoy that with my wife. So the old to new sound sounded great. It's funny Jay needed some prompts for some of the new songs, and as a man of a certain age, his prompts were written out in cardboard in large letters on his monitors.

But he knew all the hits, and it was great. And what's kind of, nice is that Wilco played, you know, they closed out the festival, [00:10:00] and late in the night Jay joined them on stage to play an extended version of "Cortes the Killer," which was pretty fun, that Neil Young song. Okay. 

Rene: Yeah. Bo- obviously both fans of Neil Young, for sure.

Sean: "Came dancing across the water, man." And Lou came out for a "California Star" singalong that ended the night. 

clip: Nice. 

Sean: It was really, it was cute. Okay. So let's hear "The Garden" from their latest release in 2001. The album Swept It Into Space, and this was the second song they played. 

Rene: Oh, sorry. Which, which album is this?

Sean: Swept... Sweep It Into Space. 

Rene: Sweep It Into Space. And is that, like, early? Is that- No, 

Sean: that's their latest. Oh, that's their latest? 2001. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. So that's their most recent album. 

Rene: My bad, folks. 

Sean: All right 

Rene: Let's listen. Raised on 

clip: the faith that said last hold out, it can't be broken. We were raised on [00:11:00] the faith that said last hold out, it can't be broken.

And now that it's started, it might not stop. Pressure from back to the garden. Look in my eyes, we'll survive.

Rene: Wow! So I, obviously I, I didn't know the discography, and I [00:12:00] heard this song, and I was like, "That's a solid song." And so that's amazing that that's off their last album. And I, I love it 'cause it's just, it's, like, almost pretty. It's melodic, and I really enjoyed it. It's a very pretty song. 

Sean: And this is one that, that Lou, Lou Barlow sings, right?

So it's a nice... Yeah, it's a nice song. It was good in concert, and, and that album's a, a good solid album. Like, uh, it's, it's a great album. They, you know, going backwards in time, so that album was '21, and then in '06, they released an album, Give a Glimpse of What You're Not 2012. 

Rene: Great album titles, by the way.

Like, honestly, just great album titles. 

Sean: I, I-- They've got a... And, and all of these are cartoons. They, they moved into the album covers are drawn art very surreal. I Bet on the Sky in '012, and Farm, which is ants carrying people [00:13:00] just like Lord of the Rings- Yeah, yeah ... in 2009, and then Beyond.

So but before we, we talk in Beyond in, in '07, and these are all the original lineup. So they reformed in '07, and so let's talk about that in the context of a rock show. So this rock show we talked about before. This is the 2013 Riot Fest in Toronto. 

Rene: Oh, yeah. 

Sean: And so we talked about this on our Weaker Than episode.

And, I told you, I was so happy, For the entire day. But- 

Rene: You were with Evan, right? 

Sean: I was with Evan. Ben was supposed to come. He had a terrible fever- 

Rene: Ugh ... 

Sean: and couldn't make it. Ugh, that sucks. This was a family event, right? Yeah. We were going as a, as a family. Oh, 

Rene: so Deanne was there too? 

Sean: D- no, D- well, Deanne had to take care of, um- Oh.

Oh, I 

Rene: see, 

Sean: I see ... our sickly son, and someone had to take our other son to the rock show. So really, you know, I like gave- Sacrifice ... [00:14:00] sacrifice. Yeah. Yeah. So- That's what 

Rene: dads do ... 

Sean: that's, yeah, yeah. It's a great job. Yeah. So do you remember from the Weakerthans episode in episode five, who was there?

There was- 

Rene: It was crazy. I was mad. The Stooges. The Stooges were there. 

Sean: The Stooges were there. The Replacements, The Weakerthans. It was great. The Beach House. 

Rene: Yeah, Beach House. Yeah. Love Beach House. Yeah. Yeah, insane. 

Sean: That was great. It was... I was so happy to see the band again. I didn't expect that I'd see them as a full band again, right?

'Cause of all that acrimonious breakup that we'll get to. Foreshadowing. So let's hear "Almost Ready" from the, uh, 2007 album, Beyond. All right, let's hear it. 

clip: When you find the truth, the mirror's half. Find [00:15:00] the truth, I won't go back. Find the truth, I'm way off track again. Come on, light. I'm almost ready.

Now I'm right. I'm almost ready. Come on, light. I'm almost ready. Now I'm right. I'm almost ready. Almost ready. Almost ready.[00:16:00] 

Rene: Okay I like that song too, right? That song is fun, it's playful. I love that it, the wh- most of the lyrics are around, "I'm almost ready," 'cause- Don't we all feel that sometimes? We're almost ready, but we're not really just ready for whatever that is that we should be ready for, but we're almost ready.

Sean: Almost re- And, and so you mentioned the lyricism. That's like he describes a feeling in the songs, and the music supports that feeling. And yeah, that's, you know... And, and he has a good turn of phrase often with the feeling. But, like that's what is that's what I like about the songs, right?

They're bang, and, and they're, they're, they're emotional. You know, the difference between conventional rock and roll and alternative rock and roll, it's not that different. Like, listen to his guitars it's, it's rocking. It's, 

Rene: yeah. 

Sean: So I was at, a [00:17:00] cool house back in Waterloo, back in, you know, Dinosaur Jr.

days, Fire Hose days, and the host, the owner of the house was playing the alternative rock, the rock we played on the college radio station. And my roommate Craig Gonsalves, who was in a Max Webster cover band- Ooh, awesome ... he was a little older than us, so he, he had, he had raced dirt bikes was in a Max Webster cover band.

He turned to me and said, "You know, this is just rock. The lyrics are different, and it's a little bit different time signature, but this is just rock." And I'm like, "Yeah, isn't it good?" And he goes, "Yeah, it is really good." And I think he surprised himself. 

clip: Right. 

Sean: Surprised certainly the, uh, the host that I had a very clear rocking friend, not my cool alternative college, uh, radio persona, and it was great.

But the reason that I picked that song is 'cause I remember buying the CD when it came out in '07, maybe one of the last CDs, we bought. So [00:18:00] Dinosaur Jr. has been there for records, CDs, streaming, right? So this was one of the last CDs, and I was so excited to buy it because they d- they had great press, and the band had reformed.

Rene: Right. So this is their comeback album, so 

Sean: to speak. This is their comeback album as the original lineup. 

Rene: Okay. And it didn't disappoint. It didn't disappoint. 'Cause sometimes it can. 

Sean: Yeah, no. It- That's awesome ... it's a nice... As you say, it's a nice, solid, and he comes back with, like, where they left off.

Not that, you know, this- the solo stuff was okay, and let's talk about that solo stuff right now, right? Again, going backwards, the previous four albums that, for starting from 1997, a 10-year hiatus back were on Sire Records, right? So, Blanco y Negro, I think that was the imprint.

They had p-- You know, they, they epitomized, they s-signed a major label deal, right? So, it's hard to overstate their influence in the '90s, how popular those albums were and how influential, right? [00:19:00] They defined so many sounds. In, in that 

Rene: scene. In that scene. In that scene. One could say they were almost seminal.

Sean: We'll get to their seminal stage. All right. Don't you, don't you throw around that S word yet. All right. 

Rene: All right. 

Sean: So, uh, you know, how influential they were? J produced the first two Buffalo Tom albums. 

Rene: Oh, 

Sean: I love Buffalo Tom. That university-- Yeah, that UMass Amherst sound, right, where the Pixies were from.

So he was there starting the sound. He was a producer. He hasn't produced too many things, but what he's produced is pretty cool. Fire Hose. He produced "Cool Thing," by Sonic Youth. 

Rene: Oh, okay. Yeah, nice. 

Sean: I think that's their, could be their last great song. Yeah, yeah. Kim Gordon and Chuck D, when he sang- Oh, nice ...when she's like, "Cool thing, will you save us from white male corporate oppression?"

And Chuck's like, "Word," just, like, in the background. That's, that's a good song. It's a good song. But 

Rene: that was- It's a solid song. I, I 

Sean: would know [00:20:00] that one 

Rene: for sure. That 

Sean: was J. Uh, so, you know, he knew Thurston Moore, so supposedly he was hanging out with Thurston Moore from Sonic Youth, and some guy, Kurt Cobain, in, in New York City said, uh, "I'm looking for another guitarist," and this would've been 1990, so after Bleach, before that next album and asked J to join his band.

Rene: Oh, really? And J said, "Nuh-uh"? I think 

Sean: J probably ignored it. He's very taciturn. He's very like, "Yeah, whatever," you know? And that's one of their better songs, "Whatever's Cool with Me," like just- like that came out in a, in an interview decades later, that, "Oh, yeah, yeah, he asked me, but I, I didn't really think it was that important."

Now, another almost band that where J said yes he would join is Doug Martsch from- 

Rene: Oh, Built to Spill. 

Sean: So when Built to Spill went to Warner Brothers in '95, when they jumped to the major label Doug didn't have a band, right? Like that band had disappeared and, he hadn't played for a little [00:21:00] while, so he invited J to play drums and he said, "Okay."

But it was Doug that was so intimidated, the story goes, about bossing J Mascis around on drums, so he never p- did it. And then, their first album was Perfect From Now On, so that would've been pretty cool if Jay Mascis was playing drums on that. That would've been very cool. I don't know if it would've made it any better or not, but- Yeah

pretty good album. And then he I mentioned the Fire Hose connection, and he played on, uh, the Mike Watt album, Again Sevenese, that we've talked about in the past. So, from that era, Rene, let's hear their most famous song, "I Feel the Pain." Let's hear that one. And that's from, uh, Without a Sound album.

Rene: Excellent. Let's hear it.

clip: Is it up to me? You won't wait to see. [00:22:00] Screwed us both again. About as close as you get. I

feel the pain of everyone. Then I feel nothing. 

Rene: I feel the pain- Okay. So the deal is you know, the way this works is whoever's doing the band for the episode, they pre-share kind of a besties playlist so that the other person can get familiar with the band again, et cetera, et cetera. 

Sean: And if you wanna hear it, it's on [00:23:00] our website and a link on Spotify and Apple.

It's actually 

Rene: on our 

Sean: Spotify. Yep. 

Rene: Yep. Exactly. So you guys can listen if you want. But anyway, so I, I was listening to this, and I'm like... And I was literally getting mad going, "Oh, my God. He didn't put on the song that everyone knows almost because it's Sean." And he's like, "No, I'm not gonna do that. It's gotta be songs under a rock."

But then I was mistaken, and he did put the song on, and I'm so glad 'cause I- the song is so great. 

Sean: It is. It, it's a, it's got a great feels. And Jay's very pithy on this. 

'

Sean: Cause I think that other than I th- the chorus, there may be four other lines where he talks about feeling the pain in a different way and then goes back to the chorus.

So yeah, this is a very pithy song in terms of his lyricism. But a great one 

Rene: It is a great one. And the other one I think people are in the scene that we're kind of b- talking about other than my friends, which are not in the scene. I think "The Wagon" is also- "Wagon's" amazing ... probably the second most popular common song of [00:24:00] Dinosaur Jr.'s, and I love that one too.

Sean: Oh and "On the Wagon," there's like, "I live for that look." Yeah, there's... He's got so many great songs. "Starchoppin'," amazing. "Green Mind," like, it's all good. 

Rene: Yeah. "Pieces." 

Sean: We don't have time to play them all. No, we don't. Listen to our playlist. Yeah. Dive into the band, dear listeners. They're... It's a solid record collection.

Yeah. So let's keep going backwards. 

Rene: Oh, actually, I have a question, though. 

Sean: Okay. 

Rene: Not to put you on the spot, but do you have a fave album of theirs? 

Sean: Oh no. Ooh, you can't pick? Because depending on the day, it's Bug or Freak Scene, so we'll get to those ones. 

Rene: Okay. Okay. 

Sean: All right. Yeah. Of that era, hmm. I think The Wagon.

Yeah. 'Cause The Wagon is such a great song. The, "The Green Mind," yeah, that's, uh- Okay ... uh, yeah. Okay. I think 

Rene: that's, uh- All right, cool. 

Sean: Yeah. Okay. So- In the years they were apart, they were very active, right? Murph was a session drummer. He drum- drummed with [00:25:00] the Lemonheads. He played with some of J's bands, his side bands.

J Mascis, he played on the Saturday Night Live orchestra for one sat in- Really? ... just, like, randomly, like, in 2000. And he formed J Mascis and the Fog. He played with the Stooges. 

Rene: Oh, very cool. 

Sean: He sat in before the Stooges reformed with the Ashton Brothers. He was a guitarist, and they played the Stooges song with Mike Watt.

He was on the Ciccone Youth album. He played on... That's the album by Sonic Youth that was banned for a long time. 

Rene: Oh right, right. Okay. Yeah. 

Sean: So, and that's a pretty good album, too. Yeah, he was You know, he played on the 2007 issue of "I Wanna Be Your Dog" by the Stooges. Lou was active as well.

In some ways became more of a critically acclaimed artist than maybe some of the popularity that J and those bands had. [00:26:00] He was involved in movies. He did a soundtrack to the movie Kids, remember that? '95. I do remember 

Rene: that movie. Very controversial movie. Very good movie. 

Sean: Very good movie.

And so the hit song that came out of that was "Natural One." So that was Lou Barlow as Folk Implosion And yeah, I listened to that, and I was like, "Yeah, that's a pretty cool song." He had like... He went through a whole bunch of, uh, it's, it's... They're very similar in terms of his musical style. Folk Implosion, Deluxe Folk Sh- Folk Implosion-

New Folk Implosion. Sebadoh, his main vehicle for and then Centrino, which is his lo-fi home recording tapes. And his '96 album, Harmacy by Sebadoh, my wife wore this CD out. Wow. Like, it was when I was playing this, I'm like, "Do you remember this album?" And she goes, "Oh, yeah." And I did some research.

So it obviously had faded out of [00:27:00] her CD playing- Rotation ... in the car rotation- Yeah ... by the boys were old enough to remember the songs that they were hearing, 'cause they have no recollection- ... of that. But, oh, yeah, we played that a lot. And that's a great album. We listened to that- Nice ... playing on this.

So let's go backwards one more. My first time I saw them, and this is, Wikipedia's heaven, as according to uh, Nick Cave. The Setlist FM is so useful for bringing back- Yes ... so many memories. I agree. So I can tell you, it was at the end of March, March 31st, in 1989. 

Rene: Okay. Where'd they play?

Sean: Lee's Palace. 

Rene: Okay. So folks Lee's Palace capacity is, I don't know, 500, 800? 

Sean: Yeah. Yeah. 

Rene: Somewhere in there. Yeah. 500, 800, somewhere in there. 

Sean: Yeah. Probably 800. Yeah. Less than 1,000. 

Rene: Yeah. For sure. 

Sean: And so this is when I was very confident in my taste. I was dating my future wife at the time. I had tickets to go [00:28:00] see Dinosaur Jr.

I went and bought them probably at The Record Peddler, where you had to go Buy- Yeah ... physical records, so I'm like, "I'm gonna go buy these." Yeah. I think I got like- Screw 

Rene: you, Ticketmaster. 

Sean: It was easier back then. Yeah. A lot harder to, uh, get the tickets, but yeah, you didn't have to wait in line on- And-

virtual lineup. 

Rene: And you'd pay $2 versus 15. 

Sean: Yes. And you could buy a record while you were there. 

Rene: Yeah, true. 

Sean: So I wasn't cool enough to see them at the Cameron House in '87. Whoa. So that would- That would've been a cool... So that was- My God ... two years before they were playing, and the Cameron House would've sat 100 people, maybe- Yeah

150. At 

Rene: best, 

Sean: yeah. If they were standing. Yeah. I would... We went to the Cameron House a lot. I loved the Cameron House. Yep. Uh, but you know, there was no way I was gonna miss uh, this show. Place was packed, prob- you know, totally oversold who were also confident in their taste in wearing black leather.

Like, it was a, like everybody there was, knew that they were gonna see something pretty cool. And all J kept saying was, "Turn off the lights. Turn off the lights." So the band played, and [00:29:00] the, the stage lights came on, and he just kept saying, "Turn off the lights." So he was a... This was when, he became a curmudgeon early in his-

Career. They blasted through the set. Did, did they 

Rene: turn off the 

Sean: lights? Yeah, they turned off all the lights, so we- So you couldn't 

Rene: see 'em. 

Sean: No, but it sounded amazing. Yeah. All right. Now- I mean, there was enough light that, you know, like, maybe. I, I don't know. I wasn't worried at that point for any safety things, so they must have had some light.

It wasn't pitch black. 

Rene: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Sean: But yeah, there was no lights on them. So we left with our ears ringing and knowing that we witnessed something special. So these are my two first favorite Dinosaur Jr. bar none. So they were touring Bug, and just released, uh, "You're Living All Over Me," so let's hear "Freak Scene" off Bug.

Rene: All right, let's hear it. So 

clip: fucked, I can't believe it. But there's a way and I wish you'd see it. How can life just can't be this? What a mess just to leave it.[00:30:00] 

Sometimes I don't thrill you. Sometimes I think I'll kill you. Just don't let me fuck up, will you? 'Cause when I need a friend, it's still you. What a mess 

Sean: Okay, so there's Jay's lyricism at its best. "So [00:31:00] fucked I can't believe it. If there's a way I wish I'd see it. Don't let me fuck up, will you?" I'm missing a, a couple lines.

"'Cause when I need a friend, it's still you." If that's not- That's 

Rene: nice ... '

Sean: 80s angst love, I don't know what there is. Yeah. And it's, and again, the... It's loud, and they were loud, but the, he plays over top of the drumming, and there's, like, a purity that comes through in the loudness in that song.

The harmonies in that song, I think are really sweet, even though it's very, very loud. 

Rene: Nice. And you saw that one live? 

Sean: Yeah. I think they played it every time. That, uh... Although Jay says that's his least favorite album of that, but the song "Freak Scene"'s pretty good. So then the so- the record before that, their second record, first on SST, is called L- "You're Living All Over Me."

Rene: What an amazing album title. I just love that phrase. It's so cool. 

Sean: It's, [00:32:00] again, angsty, edgy. Yeah, that we could... If we had pure copyright issues and all day, uh, I would like to just play that entire album- ... for all of our listeners 'cause it is solid right from the start to the finish, and it gets better 'cause the last couple songs Lou sings, and they're just such a departure.

You can tell where Subido was going to come from from that. It's just a great album. So let's hear... Which one do you wanna hear? Do you wanna hear, Let's see. "In a Jar." "

Rene: In a Jar." Let's hear "In a Jar." 

clip: I'll be grazing by your window. Please come pat me on the head. Just wanna find out what you're nice to me for.

When I look up, don't think I don't know about all the scabs you dress. It's hard to stomach [00:33:00] the gore.

I know you don't have the patience to peel 'em off no more. In a jar where you fed me. All I could do was lick your hand. In a jar the scars are plain to 

Sean: see. I hope somehow you'll know I understand. I'll be grazing by- Okay, so that's where- the bass line is so great. So, Lou doesn't play a bass conventionally.

Like, he plays a bass like Johnny Ramone played his guitar, slung super low, playing way up [00:34:00] above the the pickups, and just boom, boom, boom. And it gets such a great, like loud, and then the guitar comes up, and it's almost like you could hear, . So those songs are great. Okay, so, uh, one more bonus concert memory?

Rene: Yeah, let's go. 

Sean: Okay, so back to the present day the Wilco Festival. So Rene, do you remember when cover tribute CDs were a big thing? 

Rene: I do, but do you remember what I said about covers? 

Sean: You've said many things about covers. You like them when they make them their own. 

Rene: That's right. Exactly. Like, don't freaking karaoke the thing.

Like, make it... Like, put your brand or your band on that cover. Like, make it yours. 

Sean: Okay, so you didn't like any of the Red Hot and Blue covers? 

Rene: I wasn't-- I, I am familiar with what you're talking about, and I don't remember any of them really hitting me hard. 

Sean: The reason I mention [00:35:00] it is because in MJ Lenderman's set Jay came out, and they sang a cover of Neil Young's Lot of Love.

And so why this is important, getting back to those tribute CDs, so the, the best tribute CD that I ever owned I don't even know if it's, if you can get it on streaming, was 1989 tribute CD called The Bridge which was to raise money for the school that Neil Young's son, well, his wife, his wife really was, did all the work for their autistic child.

So on that tribute album, The Pixies, that we talked about, Winterlong, Sonic Youth did Computer Age, which I think is that whole trans album, the '82 experimental synthesizer album that Neil put out. Oh, okay. I think that was pretty good. Yeah. The Flaming Lips, After the Gold Rush, Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds, Helpless, one of the best covers ever.

Soul Asylum Barstool Blues, Henry Kaiser, Needle and the Damage Done. [00:36:00] So Psychic TV could go on, Only Love Can Break Your Heart. So Dinosaur Jr. did a two-minute version of the song Lot of Love, and it was very, very disrespectful. Oh. It was, it was a... It like... You know, I'm sure- They're like, "Well, Dinosaur Jr.'s really popular.

We'll keep them on," even though the song was disrespectful? 

Rene: Why- How was it... can you go into that a little bit? Like, how was it disrespectful? 

Sean: It was there was no melody. They just played, like... And J Mascis, "Lot of love. Gonna take a lot of love." And then just- Oh, 

Rene: almost sarcastic. 

Sean: Almost sarcastic.

You know, it was I forgive them now, and I'm sure, it helped with the tribute sales. But, you know, maybe J was just acting out of spite and anger because up until that point he'd been constantly compared to Neil Young in terms of his nasal voice- 

Rene: [00:37:00] Yeah ... 

Sean: the guitar solos- Yeah ... and the likes of- And I thought he liked 

Rene: Neil Young.

Sean: I think he likes, but I wouldn't want to just be constantly compared to Neil Young if you're, like trying to make your own thing. So maybe he was taking out, out a little bit. 

Rene: Yeah. I mean, you could do worse. 

Sean: Yes. And, when he came out and sang Lot of Love with with MJ it was pretty good.

J and MJ- It was much better ... it was much better. They, they, it was, it was a reverential good version. Made it their own. I love that ... that great song. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: But let's hear Dinosaur Jr.'s best cover. 

Rene: I am 

Sean: in- Although they did do- ... full agreement here. Hold on. Okay. They did do, I can't find it, it's not on streaming service, but on a B side of one of their like that Bug or, uh, Freak Scene they do a cover version of Peter Frampton's I Want You to Show Me the Way.

Rene: Awesome. I had that album, man. Like, I had that album. Jesus Christ. 

Sean: Now, I didn't, 'cause again, [00:38:00] you were way cooler than me. No, I've been- And I just had- ... in this case, 

Rene: there was 

Sean: not 

Rene: a cool 

Sean: flex ... I didn't 

Rene: have Peter Frampton. There is no cool flex here. I don't know why I had that album, but I did. 

Sean: When he says "I see you on the street," did Peter Frampton say, "And I wanna kill your friends"?

Rene: I'm not sure. Are we into mondegreens again? 

Sean: No, no, no. In, in the cover it's not a mongreen. I'm pretty sure I'm listening to that. I... It's been a long time since I've heard it, but I'm pretty sure. In Dinosaur Jr.'s version, they do say, "I see you on the street and I wanna kill your friends"- That's awesome

"and I want you to show me the way." Um- That's 

Rene: like Sid Vicious's My Way- Yes ... where he's like, "I killed a cat." 

Sean: Yeah. 

Rene: Yeah. 

Sean: So what's their best cover version, Rene? 

Rene: Just Like Heaven. The Cure's Just Like Heaven. My God, when I heard this, I was like, "That is awesome. That is-" Totally taking that song and making it their own.

Sean: They do make it their own. So let's hear the last half of that song. 

Rene: All right, let's do it. It all [00:39:00] put me into shape. I must have been asleep 

clip: for days. A moving limb, 

Rene: a breathing name. I opened up my eyes. And found myself alone again, alone above a raging sea. You stole the only girl I loved. And drowned her deep inside of me.

Oh! Okay, that end, like the first time 

Sean: I heard that, I actually had to go check to make sure everything was okay 'cause that end is 

Rene: so abrupt and so awesome. And that's [00:40:00] so Dinosaur Jr. The screaming oh! Yeah. It's good. So good. The other thing I wanna say is I was listening to your besties', uh, playlist that you shared with me, and, and again, I was doing something, and I heard "Pieces," and I thought, I, 

Sean: I thought "Pieces," the beginning, I thought I was listening to their cover of "Just Like Heaven" 'cause the opening to "Pieces" sounds 

Rene: just like "Heaven."

Okay. "

Sean: Pieces" from, uh- Farm ... Farm. Yeah. It-- I, I had-- I didn't put two and two together, but yeah, go... I'll go back and listen. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So I hope Neil Young's wife has forgiven Dinosaur Jr. for doing such a bad cover. They have certainly forgiven each other for that, and I think it's, it's interesting.

I just went and got a few quotes from, before and after the breakup. You know, J Mascis doesn't talk, right? Like, he's very stoic. You know, he didn't care about the scene. He just wanted to play music. So when he was asked about the breakup, he said, "I really didn't get what Lou was doing back then.

It didn't fit what I heard for the [00:41:00] band." You know, so, you know, he didn't care. And, Lou Barlow was acutely aware of the scene, right? Like his what was it? '91, he's got a song called "Gimme Indie Rock" where he takes the piss out of what was happening in '91. But then, you know, indie rock in '91 was pretty good, so it's ironic.

But he knew there was a scene and you know, was a, was aware of it. So he says, "I was angry all the time. I didn't know how to talk to J, and he didn't talk at all." And Murph was like, they were scared of each other. And he's saying back then, "Once they stop doing that, everything else would be easy." So about the reunion, Murph says I knew if they were in the same room long enough, they'd remember why it worked.

Rene: Oh, that's nice. 

Sean: And Lou says, "I built him up as this monster in my head, and then I saw him, and he was just Jay." He forgave those things. 

Rene: Nice. So you [00:42:00] think it, it comes up to, you know, chalk it up to youth, inexperience. 

Sean: Forgiveness. Like Jay uh, you know, Jay's just saying he thought it'd be good to play with him again, and he didn't think about it too much.

So they were young. They were driven. Jay's certainly driven. He, he created a sound. I think, uh, Lou was a big part of that sound, and Murph was a big part of that sound, but he pushed them away 'cause he wanted control. And now, they've been together for close to twenty years again now, right? So, you know, and they're better together.

Yeah. I think, I think that's great. 

Rene: So question for you: If Jay Mascis is a man of few words, what was his stage presence like? Did he talk between songs or just one song after another? 

Sean: Uh, you would really hate his stage presence. He sits there. He doesn't switch guitars as much as, as some others do.

Uh, but no, he just gets there and plays [00:43:00] guitar, says, "Hey," and, uh... But again, at the festival, you s- you, you see the, the, them walking around. He was smiling, and I mean, you know, he's just, he's just a regular guy. That, that, uh, picture that you liked on their feed of him just going skiing, like, like, they posted on Dinosaur Junior Instagram.

He's just in this, like, crazy, he likes purple a lot. He likes, like, loud colors for being a soft guy. He wears a lot of very loud clothes. 

Rene: Isn't there a famous purple dinosaur? 

Sean: I guess maybe there is. Yeah. He does like the color purple. Mm. Um, but he's like, he talks, like, I've, I've listened to some interviews, and he's like, "Yeah, I s- I go out for bicycle rides," and then, you know, like, so he's a cyclist. He's a, a Buddhist. Uh, not a, I, I don't know, I think he's a a yogi, not a Buddhist. Like, he's a eastern Philosophy- ...philosophy. So to speak. 

Rene: Yep. 

Sean: Straight edge since '82. [00:44:00] So, you know, he's, he's just this guy. And, uh, yeah, I think that it's great that he's less controlling now.

Lou could forgive him. Murph can just keep time, and yeah, it's great. 

Rene: Nice. And still going strong, and, like, last album, pretty solid. 

Sean: Yeah. So they've said in a, in a interview th- uh, this time last year Jay said that he was asked what he's working on. He says, "Oh, another Dino album." That, that would be the drop hint of that.

And then when he was pushed, he said it was about 1% complete. So- ... maybe, maybe we'll get one in the next few years, you know? Uh, and Lou said, "It's Jay's band. When he's ready to record something else, I'll be there," right? So, uh, yeah, we can look at that. And they're touring. You know who they're touring with this year in, uh, uh, this summer?

They've got a big North American- I think I sent it to you, buddy ... uh, tour. Didn't I send it 

Rene: to you? 

Sean: That's a one-off. 

Rene: Oh, okay, okay. Sorry. 

Sean: They have a [00:45:00] regular co-headlining with Season one, episode five. 

Rene: Season one, episode five. Working on it. Band of Horses. 

Sean: Band of Horses. 

Rene: Wow. That's cool. 

Sean: Yeah. 

Rene: Very cool.

Sean: Yeah. So they're gonna be singing In a Drawer together. And, uh, yeah, that would be a good show. Yeah. Too bad they're not coming to uh, our neck of the woods. 

Rene: Yeah. Yeah. That and a lot of bands aren't coming to Canada these days. 

Sean: Yeah. It's sad. 

Rene: Yeah, it is sad. So 

Sean: how popular are they, Rene? 

Rene: Well, here, again, Sean, ask any of my friends or family, and no one, I tell you, they'd never heard of them.

Sean: But how many monthly listeners? 

Rene: They have 700,000 monthly listeners. 

Sean: So you used the S word. For a seminal band, is that enough? 

Rene: Well, I would argue that it doesn't really matter. That number specifically doesn't matter. What matters is did they have a sound that was unique? [00:46:00] Yes. Check. Did they influence a lot of other bands?

Yes. Check. Did they influence bands in their era at the time, like a Sonic Youth? Like Sonic Youth, you know, they toured with Sonic Youth. So, you know, Sonic Youth hated them the first time but then liked them, uh, the second or third time, and, and, uh, I think that's why they got signed onto... I think that's why they got signed- 

Sean: Signed to SST?

Right. Okay. 

Rene: Right, right, right. 

Sean: I'm sure they would've wanted to go to SST. 

Rene: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I would say that's what makes, uh, the band seminal. 

Sean: Okay. So we agree. They're an ear shifter band, and what I think they are is because they're loud, but it's not just loud for aggressive. It's loud for the feel, for the emotion, right?

Yeah, 

Rene: which is an outlier for you, dude, in terms of, like, lyrically you're like, "Yeah they're fine. Whatever," but I'm really here for the feels, which is my thing. So interesting. 

Sean: Yeah. I think you, you, you f- like, to me, I feel it in my chest before I think about it in my [00:47:00] head. 

Rene: Wow. That's cool. I like that.

Sean: Like, the other thing about why we like bands, they are a collision of genres that shouldn't fit but somehow do. Yep. You mentioned the rock and roll, the h- their hardcore roots. Classic rocks. 

Rene: Yep. 

Sean: Uh- 

Rene: There's some country in there, I think even ... 

Sean: they, you know, they, they were influenced by the Meat Puppets, yeah.

You know, the nasal vocals that, you know, the instantly recognizable guitar sound. When he plays on other, uh, artists, you can tell, uh, it's him playing. So, you know, they created their own identity, I totally agree, and I think they're continuing to influence. But I think the best thing is they're, it's a forgiveness story, right?

You know, where friendship is as important as the music, right? They've made good music, and they're friends, and they're still touring, and that's what, I love that redemption arc. 

Rene: I like that too, like very much, 'cause there's a lot of bands that don't do that or can't get through that, [00:48:00] uh, most famous being probably like Pink Floyd, The Beatles- Yeah

like just couldn't do it, right? 

Sean: Yeah, and it would be a shame to throw away a 40-year friendship, don't you think? 

Rene: I agree, my friend. I agree. 

Sean: Yeah. It's, there's, it's pretty good- Yeah ... to be looking over at somebody and going, "Yeah," you know, like, you don't have to say a lot, then you have a lot to say, and, uh, yeah, it's pretty good.

Okay. Well, I think that's a pretty good summation of, uh, uh, Dinosaur Jr., so what are we gonna hear next time? 

Rene: Well, next time, Sean, we're gonna hear a band that we also both love. Uh, and not only that, but the band had so much chutzpah, for lack of a better term. Uh, they not only did albums under their band name, they actually did an album under a pseudo band name as well, and that album was also good.

So this band is kind of on fire. They're from New York City, I think Brooklyn specifically. 

Sean: Yep, and they're pretty punk rock. 

Rene: They're pretty punk [00:49:00] rock. 

Sean: Okay, I'm looking forward to that. 

Rene: Me too. 

Sean: Okay, till next time. 

Rene: Till next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Earshifter. Tune in next time where we'll cover another band that deserves more.

You can find Earshifter on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Friend us or listen to our playlist on Spotify, and visit earshifter.com for more information. Special thanks go to our logo designer, Stuart Thursby, and our intro/outro music by Joe Novak. You can find him as byebyebadman, one word, on SoundCloud.

And a big shout-out to Joe for being our awesome sound engineer/editor. Until next 

time.